Baguazhang vs. Xingyiquan
Quick answer
Baguazhang and xingyiquan are northern Chinese arts that Sun Lutang, together with taijiquan, classed as internal, and their lineages became connected at the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries through Cheng Tinghua and his circle. Baguazhang circles the opponent by walking in a circle and works with eight palms, xingyiquan advances along a straight line with the five fists and grew out of spear fighting. Neither is a separate discipline of the IWUF rules, and we have not found a health study for either of them.
At a glance
| Baguazhang | Xingyiquan | |
|---|---|---|
| Country of origin | China | China |
| Origin | 19th century (present form) | Early modern (present form) |
| Founder | Dong Haichuan | Ji Jike |
| Olympic status | Not Olympic | Not Olympic |
| Rank recognition | unknown | unknown |
| Weapons | Weapons optional | Weapons optional |
| Forms | Forms at the core | Forms at the core |
| Relative cost | unknown | unknown |
| Katas and forms in the encyclopedia | 1 | 1 |
Scales 1–5
Rated for the typical training of an adult beginner in an ordinary club, calibrated across all arts.
What each art is built from
Editorial rating 0–3: how much room each area gets in ordinary training.
History and relationship
Both arts come from northern China, and their documented lineages intersect in the 19th century in Beijing and in Hebei province. Baguazhang is traced to a single person, Dong Haichuan, while xingyiquan rests on a longer chain of teachers from Ji Jike through Dai Longbang to Li Luoneng.
- Baguazhang: Dong Haichuan was born in 1797 or 1813 and died in 1882 in Beijing. Around 1853 he left Hebei, around 1864 he arrived in Beijing and served in the household of Prince Su, later working as a tax official. The sources do not state the year when he began teaching.
- Dong’s students Yin Fu, Cheng Tinghua, Liang Zhenpu and Gao Yisheng gave their names to the main branches. Cheng Tinghua (1848–1900) died during the Boxer Rebellion, when German soldiers shot him.
- Xingyiquan: Ji Jike (Ji Longfeng), nicknamed Divine Spear, derived the art liuhe (six harmonies) from spear fighting. The sources place him in the years 1588–1662, or Brian Kennedy gives him as the founder of modern xingyi around 1750.
- Ma Xueli (1714–1790) founded the Henan Muslim branch, and Dai Longbang’s preface from 1750 is among the first written documents. Li Luoneng adapted the art in the 19th century and taught in Shanxi and Hebei, and the sources consider it doubtful that his teacher was Dai Longbang.
Technique
- Walking in a circle in low stances, facing the centre, with regular changes of direction.
- The circle for beginners has a diameter of roughly 1.8–3.7 m.
- Strikes, kicks, locks and throws with evasive circular footwork.
- The branches differ in emphasis: Cheng on palm pressure, close-range grappling and locks, Yin on piercing with the palms.
- Straight advance forward and explosive force (fajin) over a short distance.
- The five fists (wuxing) represent five fighting states.
- The twelve animals imitate the tactics of the animals, not only their movement.
- The Shanxi branch has a narrower stance and lighter steps, the Henan branch builds on four fists and ten animals.
The circle and the straight line are the main difference. Baguazhang circles, changes direction, and the sources also describe the possibility of getting behind the opponent. Xingyiquan goes straight forward and releases force over a short distance. We have not found measured differences between the two arts or between their branches.
Training
| Baguazhang | Xingyiquan | |
|---|---|---|
| Basic exercise | walking in a circle | the santi shi stance, which Li Luoneng made central |
| Static standing | we have not found it | zhan zhuang, according to the sources from two minutes to two hours |
| Teaching order | according to some sources Dong taught only the first three of the eight palms, according to others considerably more | traditionally first the spear, only then bare-handed fighting |
| Weapons | crescent deer-horn knives, the great bagua sword and broadsword, staff, spear, hook sword | spear, straight sword, sabre, staff, halberd |
We have not found the lesson structure, the training frequency or the form of sparring for either art.
Progression and ranks
| Baguazhang | Xingyiquan | |
|---|---|---|
| Grades | we have not found a system of grades | we have not found a belt or grade system |
| Progression in content | according to the Hebei national listing beginners start with mud-walking (nibu), and according to some sources Dong varied further palms for each student | three levels of force: ming jin (visible), an jin (hidden), hua jin (transforming) |
The three levels of jin in xingyiquan describe how the quality of force changes, not examinations or ranks. We have not found a similar division in baguazhang.
Physical load and risks
- We have not found a study of injuries or adverse effects with numbers.
- No study that we have found measured the load on knees and hips when walking in a circle in a low stance.
- We have not found a study of injuries or adverse effects.
- According to the sources the duration of zhan zhuang standing ranges from two minutes to two hours, and there are no data on the load.
Who it suits
| Baguazhang | Xingyiquan | |
|---|---|---|
| Began with this art, then added the other | Gao Yisheng: baguazhang from 1892, xingyiquan between 1902 and 1911 with Li Cunyi | Sun Lutang: xingyiquan from 1882 with Guo Yunshen, baguazhang from 1891 with Cheng Tinghua, Zhang Zhankui: xingyiquan with Liu Qilan, then baguazhang in the Cheng school |
| Community | we have not found it | the Henan branch, known as Muslim xingyi, among the Hui in Luoyang |
Children
| Baguazhang | Xingyiquan | |
|---|---|---|
| Children’s programmes | we have not found it | we have not found it |
| Competition framework | 2019 IWUF traditional wushu rules: groups A up to 8 years, B 9–11, C 12–17, shared by all styles | the same, the rules do not name xingyiquan |
| Studies in children | we have not found it | we have not found it |
Self-defence
- Strikes, kicks, locks and throws.
- Evasive circular footwork, and the sources also describe going around the opponent to his back.
- Straight advance and explosive force over a short distance.
- In the war a shortened version for close combat with bayonet and sabre.
We have not found a source on the level of partner resistance at which either art is trained for self-defence.
Practical use
| Baguazhang | Xingyiquan | |
|---|---|---|
| Health and fitness studies | we have not found it | we have not found it |
| Army | we have not found it | a shortened version for officers at the academy in Nanjing during the Second Sino-Japanese War, close combat including bayonet and sabre |
| Protection and escort | we have not found it | Li Luoneng and his students became famous as personal bodyguards and escorts of caravans |
We have not documented a health effect with numbers for either art. Studies of taijiquan, with which both are classed among the internal arts, say nothing about baguazhang or xingyiquan.
Competition
| Baguazhang | Xingyiquan | |
|---|---|---|
| IWUF rules for taolu (2005) | not among the disciplines | not among the disciplines |
| IWUF traditional wushu (2019) | we have not found it by name | not named, the registration form lists just taijiquan, nanquan and another bare-hand style |
| Competitive wushu | a non-standard form, judged without a difficulty component | after the Cultural Revolution some forms were adapted with an emphasis on aesthetics, it appears rarely |
| Olympic programme | no | no |
Availability and organisations
| Baguazhang | Xingyiquan | |
|---|---|---|
| Branches | most often Yin, Cheng and Liang, the Sun, Gao and Jiang styles are described as sub-styles of the Cheng method | Shanxi, Hebei and Henan |
| PRC national intangible heritage list | inscribed in 2008, item no. 797 (VI-25) for Hebei province, extended in 2011 by the Beijing branch | item no. 798 (VI-26): Hebei 2008, Shanxi 2011, the Henan xinyi liuhe quan separately (VI-30, 2008) |
| Recognition of grades | we have not found a uniform system | we have not found a uniform system |
Switching and combining
- New is the straight advance forward and the santi shi stance.
- New are the five fists and the twelve animals.
- The spear remains, but in xingyiquan it is traditionally taught as the first weapon.
- New are circle walking and regular changes of direction.
- New are the palms and evasive circular footwork.
- New are weapons such as the crescent deer-horn knives and the great bagua sword.
On the left the transition from baguazhang to xingyiquan, on the right the reverse. The xingyi-bagua direction came out of the Cheng school: Zhang Zhankui learned xingyiquan from Liu Qilan and then baguazhang from a representative of Cheng Tinghua. Gao Yisheng went the opposite way, beginning with baguazhang and adding xingyiquan only with Li Cunyi.
Philosophy
- It is generally accepted that Dong Haichuan became acquainted with Taoist methods, including circle walking, on his travels.
- At the same time the sources give evidence of a connection between older regional arts and this walking.
- The five fists draw on terms of traditional Chinese medicine.
- Force is described in three levels, from visible through hidden to transforming.
Sun Lutang, who published a book on both xingyiquan and baguazhang, classed both arts together with taijiquan as internal. The national tournament of 1928 then divided participants into Shaolin and Wudang and recognized those of Wudang as internal. We have not found an interpretation of the philosophy of baguazhang from a source with a historian.
Forms and terminology
Forms are the foundation of both arts. Baguazhang is built on eight palms in a circle, and the Beijing national listing names the Old Eight Palms and the Sixty-Four Palms. According to some sources Dong taught only the first three palms and varied the others for each student, according to others he taught considerably more. In xingyiquan the five fists, which Guo Yunshen adapted, and the twelve animal forms are practised, and the Henan lineage of Ma Xueli knows the routines sijia quan and bashi and ten forms.
Common misconceptions
- The duel of Guo Yunshen (1829–1898) with Dong Haichuan: according to the story neither defeated the other, and the proponents of both arts then respected each other. The sources call the duel disputed and historically unreliable, and Sun Lutang is said to have claimed that it never happened.
- Another version has Guo Yunshen first come to Cheng Tinghua, who dodged his strike twice, and Guo then dropped the challenge to Dong. This version too belongs to the story.
- Instead of a duel, the sources consider it more probable that Dong and Guo practised together. Frantzis places the exchange between xingyi and bagua rather in Tianjin around 1900, with Li Cunyi, Zhang Zhaodong and Cheng Tinghua.
Which to choose
Frequently asked questions
Why are baguazhang and xingyiquan often linked?
Their lineages became intertwined at the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries through shared teachers. Sun Lutang studied xingyiquan from 1882 and baguazhang from 1891 and published books on both, Xingyiquan xue (1915) and Baguaquan xue (1916). The xingyi-bagua direction also came out of the Cheng school.
Is either art on the intangible heritage list?
Both. The PRC inscribed baguazhang in 2008 on the national intangible heritage list as item no. 797 for Hebei province and extended it in 2011 by the Beijing branch. Xingyiquan is item no. 798, the Hebei version since 2008 and the Shanxi version since 2011, and the Henan lineage xinyi liuhe quan has a separate entry.
Which of the two arts is older?
The documented lineage of xingyiquan begins earlier. The sources place Ji Jike in the years 1588–1662 or around 1750, whereas Dong Haichuan was born in 1797 or 1813. Li Luoneng gave xingyiquan its modern form only in the 19th century, that is in the same century in which Dong was active.